ESCO MAPPING PILOT WORKSHOP 2 MEETING MINUTES

Transcription

1 DG EMPL Framework Contract Ref.: VC/2014/0246 Service Order Number: VC/2014/0511 ESCO MAPPING PILOT WORKSHOP 2 MEETING MINUTES Brussels 16/05/2014 Meeting Minutes ESCO Mapping Pilot Workshop 2 Version: document version 1.0 ESCO Mapping Pilot

2 1 REPORT STRUCTURE Attendees see section 2 Minutes of the meeting see section 3 Error! Reference source not found. see section 4 Meeting Minutes ESCO Mapping Pilot Workshop 2, Page 1 of 10

3 2 ATTENDEES 2.1 PES Alain Depuch (Pole Emploi) Dimitri Pelletier (Pole Emploi) Maria-Jose Arias (Servicio Público de Empleo Estatal) Catalina Cantero (Servicio Público de Empleo Estatal) Julius De Zeeuw (UWV. WERKbedrijf) 2.2 OBSERVER OF THE MAINTENANCE COMMITTEE Gerd Goetschalckx (VDAB 2.3 DG EMPL Jackie Morin Martin Le Vrang Katrien Vander Kuylen Massimiliano Molinari Mira Lepur Cristina Perera 2.4 DG EAC Karin Van Der Sanden 2.5 TENFORCE Agis Papantoniou Johan De Smedt Karel Kremer Meeting Minutes ESCO Mapping Pilot Workshop 2, Page 2 of 10

4 3 MINUTES OF THE MEETING 3.1 PLANNING SLIDES Agis presented the planning of the mapping pilot, there were no comments on the planning at this stage, but the planning was to be confirmed later in the day 3.2 CLASSIFICATION TRIPLIFICATION SLIDES Johan presented the work done in the triplification of the PES taxonomies ROME There was a double occupation structure in ROME. The PES explains its meaning: one is the everyday structure, the other is a structure for specific needs. E.g. group all occupations related to environmental needs, group all occupations that do not need a qualification, CZECH There is a link from the occupations to an EQF code. It is not clear yet what this means, TF will contact the PES for information. Possibly this is the level of qualification required for the occupation? SPAIN The Spanish classification has only occupations because there are other databases in Spain with the other content (SC and Q) GENERAL NOTES There are two very rich systems in the Pilot [French, Dutch] Looking at what is available ESCO seems to miss task descriptions. ROME has a very systematic approach to certifications. They have a central database that is linked to the educational system and labour market training. This is included in a structured way into ROME. All of this information is shared with the educational and labour market training. However, this is a specific database, available on the internet. They are linked together via ROME code. Netherlands has something similar: national qualifications database, linked to the occupations. There was a study on this. Spain has a similar relationship to vocational training. This means there is a relation between occ, qualification and competences. France also has links to vocational training in the FPA (continual vocational training) Meeting Minutes ESCO Mapping Pilot Workshop 2, Page 3 of 10

5 database on qualifications. Note: when FPA defines a training, they need an approval from the national level (quality label). Note: a PES is not responsible for defining qualifications Work context: e.g. the job happens in a port, it's a night job, So this can be formally structured (ROME does this using conditions). But in general the context is related to the activities (and how they are implemented in a certain company). This is currently still missing in ESCO, but it will be implemented as a fourth pillar in ESCO. E.g. a kook has different cuisines as a work context. However, in the moment it is not a structured classifications, just a flat list. Czech system seems not to cover the whole of the labour market (need to confirm, the PES could not make it to the meeting). It was developed for a certain subdomain, this will give a different dimension to the linking with EQF OCCUPATION VS JOB According to the PES, there is a big difference between occupations and jobs. A job is a mix of labour market activities, depending on the company the content of the job is different. So the PES suggest: in the context of mapping, we should be able to map jobs not occupations. For ESCO a job is a set of tasks or responsibilities that is executed by one person in a specific workplace, Occupations are groupings of jobs with similar tasks/responsibilities. A classification system contains things that can be used to describe the contents of the job, but the job will not be part of the classification system. So when doing a mapping, we cannot map the jobs, but we can map the elements that describe the job. Jobs come in when we want to assess the quality of the mapping study (to verify that the job can indeed be described after the mapping). Note: there are also occupations that intersect completely with their job (e.g. dentist) WHAT TO MAP IN THE PILOT As ISCO is a reference between the 28 national classifications, occupations are a good pillar to relate the jobs (jobs might be to fine grained). The occupations have many relations as well, which further details them (SC, Q). Occupation pillar should not be the only pillar (e.g. EQF can be used for Qualifications, ) Currently, information exchange in EURES is only based on ISCO, so even only occupations would help a lot already. A phased approach was suggested, first OCC, then SC Conclusion: mapping occupations is good, but mapping of skills, tasks and other international standards would be required too. Do not isolate the mapping to the occupation pillar. Meeting Minutes ESCO Mapping Pilot Workshop 2, Page 4 of 10

6 3.2.7 MODELLING 'TASKS' Martin: the difference between skills/competences and tasks might not be that big. Can we get some examples per type of concept to understand the difference? Task in ESCO: something that is executed by one person in a job, skills/competence: able to perform a certain type of task In Dutch and French classification: competences are always behavioural (psychological), tasks are on an abstract level, but not job specific (they are occupation specific though), activity in ROME = group of tasks (1-3 done at the same time) ISCO There was an impression that ISCO would be abandoned in ESCO v1. This is not the case, the hierarchy is no longer equal to ISCO, but a mapping to ISCO will remain Reason: if we want to use the occupation hierarchy to drill down, you would need expert knowledge of ISCO. This cannot be required. However, by keeping a mapping (ESCO tagged with ISCO codes), an ISCO view of ESCO can be provided. 3.3 AUTOMATIC MAPPING The relevant parts of the PES classifications were selected using ISCO code, to avoid differences in hierarchy between the classifications The current state of the automatic mapping was presented The PES expressed a concern that the availability of synonyms and the quality of the translations is very important in this context. The ESCO SEC assured the PES that the content of ESCO v01 will be processed by terminologists who are not simply translators, but who will enrich the content. Language dependent algorithms, like stemmers complicate the work. Every language will need its own stemming algorithm and the quality of these algorithms may be lower for 'smaller' languages. 3.4 EVALUATION GRID COVERAGE IN THE MAPPING PILOT Skills related to technical Machines can be a requirement on the job market (not just the company providing the machine, the actual name of the machine and version of the software). However, this means we need enough cases to be realistic and the PES need to have the right vacancies (the employers actually make them). With the sectors we have now, we will not encounter that (will encounter that only with large production domains) we only have HOSPI, AGRI and VET, SO we will not cover all sectors and problem areas (see last point above). Our conclusions cannot be too optimistic! Meeting Minutes ESCO Mapping Pilot Workshop 2, Page 5 of 10

7 For example: ROME has a description of the specific tools that are used. However, it was a problem to be as specific as possible but as broadly applicable as possible AIM OF THE PILOT ESCO should not be a CV-JV matching tool, it should be a vocabulary, we need to see whether we can capture the information in the PES scenarios. Mapping pilot should be an iterative process: in the first two months we should limit the scope to the mapping. Then we can switch to matching (possibly) and improve the mapping later CONTENTS OF THE EVALUATION GRID The Evaluation grid for JVS encoding will hold the number of concepts in the different types of documents in the process: non-structured, PES coding, ESCO coding, ESCO-PES translation. So PES to fill the first two columns. There may be a difference in level of detail between the raw and coded data NEXT STEPS IN HANDLING THE SCENARIOS TF translates the scenarios, PES codes them in their system, TF extracts the concepts and the numbers. Structured information (pure text) delivered to PES, they will treat it as they treat any case in their system, all of this information will be sent back to ESCO (may be more than we can handle). This means we will get 4 different vacancies, one for every PES, each in the representation that is used by the PES CONTENTS OF THE SCENARIOS If it is a JV, employer decides what is in there If it is a CV, the client decides what is in there, furthermore, there is information in the client file. It is not allowed to exchange all information here (by law). If there is such information, we should indicate the information that was not shared (not the contents, but the type of information). during matching at VDAB, the only information that is shared is job related. Automatic matching plays very safe and never uses that information. E.g. it does not even use the desired job, if they want it to be used they need to give a written approval. At that point it is a (manual) service and is no longer automatic. Note: how the information in the JSS and JVS will be used is a step too far for ESCO, ESCO wants to see how much of the information can be captured by ESCO and translated between the PES. The PES note that the evaluated items are very much related to how ESCO is thinking about this. E.g. salary and labour contracts are not there. Maybe working Meeting Minutes ESCO Mapping Pilot Workshop 2, Page 6 of 10

8 environments should be more developed? The ESCO SEC notes that ESCO does not aim to capture this information at this stage. It will therefore be noted under information that cannot be captured by ESCO. Dutch PES only codes occupations, the skills are free text. So from the CV the skills will be listed in the free text but 0 skills will be coded from the PES. 3.5 SPANISH PES CODIFICATIONS common data in spain (spain is very decentralized): are codified, linking to another table with actual information. There are many different fields (languages, driving license, ) observation column: indicators on how the code should be transferred to the EURES portal, e.g. you should translate this code to ISCO-08 instead e.g. professional level is translated to a different table language (written, spoken, ), certifications, CV is similar, also has availability and other CV specific fields JOB OFFERS every code gets a value (which may be 'not specified') PES replies to job offers with a list of candidates (they do not know which candidates are chosen, but can find out if they register the contract) PES decides to put people on the list by matching the Job offer criteria to the list of people. If the resulting list is very large, the PES contacts the people and they can choose to apply themselves. if the PES gets a registered contract, they know that the job offer was successful. If the employer does not register the contract, the PES does not know the result of the contract COVERAGE OF THE SECTORS Note from Spain: the sectors are divided differently between the different PES and ESCO, so the lists of occupations will be very different HOSPI number of PES occupations: (used extended version of the PES) -> 77 occupations belonging to HOSPI according to PES, (not just NACE) number of job vacancies and demands related to ESCO occupation groups (percentages of CV and JV are proportionate in the group) Meeting Minutes ESCO Mapping Pilot Workshop 2, Page 7 of 10

9 AGRI VET PES differentiates between Agriculture and Forestry (112) - and - fishery and aquaculture (37) only 4 out of the 112 occupations are used in CV and JV (74 an 90 percent) and only in one region in Spain these occupations were therefore the focus of the Spanish PES's investigation 4 occupations in total VOCATIONAL TRAINING (PROFESSIONAL FAMILIES, DIVIDED IN PROFESSIONAL AREAS) has its own own hierarchy VET is not represented in vocational training hierarchy (but health is) note: this is a different system than the occupational system, but it is linked through the occupation code levels used in the qualification system is local to Spain. This system is still under discussion in Spain 3.6 FRENCH PES HOSPI AND TOURISM This is associated with leisure industry in ROME family AGRI AND VET are together in ROME family the reason is that a family represents a fixed percentage of the labour market STATISTICS ON LABOUR MARKET PES tries to concentrate on the needs of the clients, so they focus on very particular information for employers and job seekers statistics per occupation subdomain were provided, e.g. 'elevage bovin ou equin' number of offers types of contract salaries ages Meeting Minutes ESCO Mapping Pilot Workshop 2, Page 8 of 10

10 ways of recruitment: (not everyone goes through PES, e.g. 'relation personnelle') TRANSPARENCY OF LABOUR MARKET This is a new, big program with aggregation of job offers. It has the participation of big private companies and sector based companies The idea is to get more offers on their website end of July: 150k job offers from partners, 150k from Pole Employ currently 28 partners, growing to 50 partners some big partners are not included because the quality is too low (e.g. monster and indeed). This was also observed by TF, who had to filter its test scenarios to find good quality CV/JVs Representation of the partners differs greatly between the sectors (charts) and regions (charts) SURVEY: ENQUETE BESOINS EN MAIN-D'OUEVRES This is a yearly effort 2M3k companies have been asked => result of the labour market for 2014 e.g. AGRI: gardeners: 20k needs declared for 2014; waiters: 70k needs declared. these are foreseen vacancies in DUTCH PES excused: no numbers prepared, cannot be related to ESCO provided data and hoped TF could relate, but TF did not receive enough information from other PES in time for this meeting to relate 3.8 GENERAL COMMENTS skilled worker: very big part in the Spanish sector. This was removed in ESCO as it can be vague, this is still what should happen in ESCO. However, in the Mapping pilot it will be interesting! How can you map this? PES: Is there any content available in ESCO v01 for Hospi, Agri, VET? Yes there is, but it is still work in progress. We should wait for the content to be signed off (October). The next meeting will be discussed by doodle Julius: use cases are too specific to evaluate the mapping. For next workshop, ESCO SEC would like to see: original ESCO, mapped concept, target PES content. The context of the concepts will be shown as an excel dump. Mappings of agriculture would be appreciated as well, it is a much bigger sector Meeting Minutes ESCO Mapping Pilot Workshop 2, Page 9 of 10

11 CASCOD is a mapping tool used by Dutch universities and TenForce will look into that as well. 4 ACTIONS TenForce to take an example CV and JV go through the entire process with these examples, so the PES understands what needs to happen then send it out so the PES can do one step and we can validate in the next meeting we can discuss step-by-step with the PES over skype/gotomeeting step 1 = coding step 2 = transcoding step 3 = actual mapping TF will keep a log of the actions we did and share it Meeting Minutes ESCO Mapping Pilot Workshop 2, Page 10 of 10