TITLE: WANDA WUTTUNEE: ON CASE-STUDIES, NORTHERN ORGANIZATIONS, ORGANIZATIONAL CHALLENGES AND ABORIGINAL WOMEN IN MANAGEMENT

Transcription

1 This case was written by Warren Weir for the purpose of entering the 1997 Aboriginal Management Case Writing Competition. TITLE: WANDA WUTTUNEE: ON CASE-STUDIES, NORTHERN ORGANIZATIONS, ORGANIZATIONAL CHALLENGES AND ABORIGINAL WOMEN IN MANAGEMENT INTRODUCTION The following interview with Ms. Wanda Wuttunee was conducted on September 28, 1996 in Calgary, Alberta. Q: Why is it important to have (develop for use) case studies reflecting aboriginal management and organizational behaviour? What is the value in this? How do you see that? WW: I would answer that question differently now than I would have when I first wrote my book. What I saw when I used those 15 case-studies was an opportunity to celebrate, highlight and showcase what people are doing across the north, because there wasn't anybody else doing it, there wasn't other material available for the colleges to use. Or just for somebody that was interested, had a business idea, they wanted to go into business but were interested in what somebody else had done. That was where I saw the value in those case studies. More from the idea that somebody could pick up that book - it's not an academic text, that was not the intention of it - the intention was to give information that would compliment information that a banker or and accountant would give to somebody in a small community interested in starting a business. So the approach and reasons for doing the project the way that I did was to make something that was readable, that could make sense to somebody that might not have a lot of business background, but had an interest in it. Now that I ve had the experience of being a professor, and the experience of searching for materials that bring real life experience into the classroom, without necessarily bringing the person into the classroom -- a luxury in this day and age -- case studies in this area make a lot of sense. Business is business. There wasn't anything different in my case studies or any great

2 revelations about business. But for the case studies that were about Aboriginal owners or a Band - I did a case-study on a Band-owned business - it was the context that they were operating in that was different than the context for business generally. What I found in my work, and that's what I look for in case studies - if I can even find any -- is that it's current, it's relevant, and it gives an insight into an actual organization that compliments nicely the theory that you are trying to give to your students. Q: You referred to the context of Aboriginal organizations as being different. What do you mean? WW: When I think about Aboriginal organizations, and what makes them different from other organizations - what sets them apart, what's unique - then how do you convey that information to your students, I am thinking about Aboriginal organizations that have a lot of pressures from all different areas. They are trying to be effective in a very difficult operating environment, like most organizations, but to me Aboriginal organizations have a lot of things that they bring. Like they have our history, that is going to reflected differently and uniquely in the way that they operate, if they so choose. I agree with David Newhouse that there is a whole spectrum of the way Aboriginal organizations operate, and you are going to see more of the mainstream ways of looking at things in some organizations. In other organizations there will be a much truer reflection of the way that Aboriginal peoples think about issues and can deal with those issues. Aboriginal organizations - like with any area it is very hard to draw generalizations that are going to apply - are effective because they understand very much what is going on at the community level. They are able to reflect this in the way that they operate internally and the way they deal with any other institution (government, etc.) on a day-to-day basis. I think Aboriginal organizations are different. There is a lot of things that are different when you do a comparison. Like who is doing what. Leadership. What leadership looks like in these organizations. The way decisions are made. If a student was going to look at an organization, these key concepts start to help them appreciate what an organization is doing, what it is having to deal with. Take leadership issues. Many of our leaders still have the residential school experience that is reflected in the way that they handle issues within the organization and outside, and that's something you have to look at. It's unique.

3 In decision making you may see the reflection of that residential school experience, or you may not. You may see some more consensual type of decision making making sense in an organization. And with the community involvement, that's critical to how an organization is seen as being effective. Take a look at CANDO for example. The fact that they specifically make conscious decisions to focus in on grass-roots and the people that are doing the business that they want to deal with as opposed to all of the regular kind of things. You would think that they would include leaders - which they do in a way - but they are very conscious about how those leaders would play a role. And that s different that what you might see in a non-aboriginal organization. Q: If you look at Aboriginal organizations and the work you have done in the north, is there any striking differences between Aboriginal organizations in the north versus those in the south? WW: In my work in the north I looked at small business more than I did organizations. When you say organization, what would I think of With the Band-owned business, for example, it kind of has cross-over with a business organization, with political influence. And that is the same in the south. There are bands in the north, and the north is different unto its own for a variety-of reasons. Their experience with the Indian Act is different. But the way that they approach things in their organizations -- it's that common thread, ifs the thing that you see in the south too - these people are trying the best that they can, with limited resources and limited access to skilled people, and they want to draw on their band membership to fill positions, and its really difficult. Because they ll have the same issues: "Yes they need training but we need them to work." In the north they have the issue of going a long distance, physically, if they want to go to university, or they take some sort of long-distant course in the community, but they have all of these stresses and strains. But I think that it is pretty similar between the north and the south that was. Q: What would you say are some of the major challenges facing Aboriginal organizations? WW: It still comes down to this whole range of activity. If I think of just political organizations that have to make a difference at all the various levels - local to regional to national - its turbulent times. There is a lot of change that s happening, and for some people they can handle that pretty well. For Aboriginal people, for some organizations, there is a vision of potentially what this can mean for the future. It is extremely critical right now - a critical time of change - so the challenges that they face is that so many in their organization are not necessarily at the same level,

4 and for those organizations that can see a vision of the future - in Manitoba we having the whole reorganization around the Indian Act, if its there or not there and all of that. What I hear is the leadership having a vision and it was probably sold quite effectively to the chiefs throughout Manitoba, but they are having a really tough time at the community level because people just don't understand it. They don't understand just what it is that has to be done. That is the challenge. Not only do the leaders have to have the vision, they have to be thoughtful about the way that they communicate that vision effectively to their own membership, and then bring them along. When I was doing some work on mining in the Yukon I got a chance to talk with three (3) chiefs and just by chance they were at both ends of the spectrum and then one in the middle about how they would approach economic development, for eg. And, if there was a mining opportunity, or an opportunity to do something to develop their natural resources, would they do it and how would they do it. One chief said she would not touch it -- they had enough projects on their plate - until her people were heated. The healing process, she saw, had to take priority. Then, the next one talked about the fact that he was not educated enough. His son and daughter were going to law school and to business school, and when they come it will the time to take advantage of these opportunities, but right now his job was to try to bring his community up to the same point so that they could all be ready to take advantage of the opportunities. The third chief said the community had to deal with both the healing as well as the economic development together. He felt there had to be the jobs so that when the people came through the healing process they would come out of it with a job to go to. Otherwise they would sink back into the cycle that they were in before. They had to have some job to come into, so he thought that the 2-pronged approach was the only way. In talking to those chiefs, the thing that intrigued me was that, in this small area - the Yukon is not that big -- although there are these three different approaches to the same kind of issues it came down to bringing their communities to the point of buying into the vision and being ready to buy into the vision. Some communities are ready to move forward, and some aren't, and some recognize that. The more isolated, rural communities have some wonderful leaders. They shine like bright lights in my research. I think that throughout the country you have this real issue of bringing the people along, so that they can understand and take advantage. All organizations. Q: What makes a leader "wonderful"?

5 WW: I think the people that strike me are the ones that see hope. I love David's quote -- "We are more than our problems". Every Ton-4 Dick and Harry that looks at Indians talks about all the stats that say we are 5 or 10 times this and that. And yes, that's a fact, but are you stuck there? Are you wallowing there? And I don't see that. The wonderful leaders are the leaders with the vision. And the leaders and not necessarily the heads of organization at all, they can be found throughout the organization. They may not even have the title, but it's that hope and that spark that says that ifs worthwhile making that effort, talking to the youth, to put in whatever time it takes to make a difference. And, it's very low key, in the sense until you are in the communities and you have a history of seeing how people work, you just don t see it. It's low key that way to the rest of Canada. These wonderful leaders have hope, have a vision for the future, and they make you feel it. The people around them feel it and work hard toward that dream, and there are so many out there. Q: Some people talk about a new guard, a new set of younger people stepping in to take over the responsibility of leadership. How would you respond to that? WW: Well, yes, I m sure that there are a lot of different examples. The first one that comes to mind is Blaine Favel at SFIN. They are coming along, and they are more educated, but there are still not that many in terms of numbers. We haven't reached that critical mass yet. There are many young people coming through the education system and taking on those roles. When I think about it now, I have a very mainstream education, and I never really thought about what it was I was learning in terms of an Aboriginal context, because all I was doing was going to school and getting the degrees. It was interesting, but I didn't think very hard about it. I m finding in my work that I m now looking at, Okay, that's the way that you do it, but can we make it better? How can culture and the different perspectives of looking at the same issues, how can we make business better. There is definitely room for improvement there. So when I look at the young people, that is also what I am thinking about -- I think there is a respect for tradition, and that there are leaders that have grown up in a traditional and cultural background, and that is what I m trying to see as well. What are they bringing into the organization? Is it a blend, or is it just one side - the Western view -- and how do they appreciate the role of various people in the organization, and the different kind of knowledge that they bring that may not be as formal as the degree? Q: What about the interpretation of culture into the organizational structure of things?

6 WW: I don't think that we have a lock on doing it right in a Western way of educating about business, and the way that people do business. The normal style: leave your heart and soul at the door, and go in, and screw you neighbour... Anything for the bottom line... I don't know that that is the best way. Traditional approaches and perspectives where there is respect and honour, an appreciation for mother earth, all of that when that is factored into the decisionmaking process I think we can only all benefit That is the gift that Aboriginal people have to share: Is rediscovering, or celebrating, or sharing that perspective that it's okay to take a holistic approach, and make decisions in that context, and feel good about it. And you don't just think those good things on Sunday. I think that the validation of an approach that is so positive, that can make a difference for generations to come, needs to be broadcasted. There are a lot of initiatives that have been started that will bear that fruit in mainstream society, like CANDO for example. It needs to be done. Q: Does some restructuring need to take place? WW: One of the teachings that I was exposed to was the peacekeepers, first when they were making a decision went to the elders, but then they also went to a circle of women as well. That idea has not been fully explored by the mainstream or by the political organizations. I think that women have taken on increasing roles, but to include them in that way, and they would not necessarily be elders, but people who have experience, that could make sense. I don t know if its a gender thing or what, because I think that there are men that are sensitive to things, and that is why we see things like sustainable development, where culture and resources come together in a different way than they have ever come together before. Women can bring a different perspective to business and to political organizations, and it would change. It would add a different dimension. It would be that nurturing and caring kind of thing, and it would probably start with the elders - definitely - but it would be more exercised with the women. When I do research on organizations that look at issues that specifically effect Aboriginal women, I think they have drawn on a lot of experience that comes from looking at things from a very logical point of view. In some situations they mirror other political organizations that do things. I think that if we start celebrating what women can bring, what balance can be brought to a perspective, and acknowledging that there are other qualitative elements that come into decision making, that can come into a mission, or a strategy as a way of doing something, that in the long run, if you are looking at a long term result, it

7 will be better, because it will be more in balance. I don't know if I can be more specific than that. Q: Back to general thoughts on Aboriginal organizations. How would you define Aboriginal organizations, and what is Aboriginal control? People give you a whole lot of different answers (which I highlight, such as control, clientele, staffing, etc.) WW: I would say that its all of those. Those are elements. When I talk about Aboriginal organizations, those kinds of elements would have to be there. But there is also something to be learned from organizations, not necessarily Aboriginal organizations, that have programs specifically designed to meet the needs of Aboriginal clientele. There is an interface there that s different. The way that they deliver their program usually differs that they deliver there other programs, the way decisions are taken, and the way people work in those organizations effectively in that section. I m also interested in those organizations that try to bridge, and they might not have any of those elements, but they are trying to serve an Aboriginal clientele, because the crossover is important to understand. We are not the only ones delivering services. If the funding sources are saying that we are independent, that there are no strings attached to the money in the way you make your decisions, and we're Aboriginally controlled because we are the majority of people on the board, and the committees are Aboriginal, then I think we can make a pretty good case that we are Aboriginally controlled. The funding sources - the government and not necessarily the corporations -- want to see how the money is being spent, but it would be a really interesting proposition to hear that no you can't do that that way. And that to me is the control issue.