ISCO-08 database. 0 - Armed forces occupations. Belgium. Bulgaria

Transcription

1 0 - Armed forces occupations Belgium It would be best if Major Group 0 only includes core military staff that performs typically military tasks. Other military occupations, that can be classified in other Major Groups (like doctors, kitchen staff,...) should be classified in the other Major Groups. Conclusion(s) Task Force : 1) Use the definition "if member of the armed force then ISCO code 0". 2) Use ancillary variables to identify possible members of the armed forces (information on the employer, economic activity of the local unit Defence...) and in the case the person self declare be something else, ask an extra question to verify if he/she is indeed a member of the armed forces. 3) The scope of the armed forces will be discussed at the ISCO-08 workshop on 19 November Bulgaria The scope of the armed forces - in the Major Group 0 - to classify only pure military staff. Drivers, kitchen staff, medical doctors to be classified in the respective Unit Groups Conclusion(s) Task Force : 1) Use the definition "if member of the armed force then ISCO code 0". 2) Use ancillary variables to identify possible members of the armed forces (information on the employer, economic activity of the local unit Defence...) and in the case the person self declare be something else, ask an extra question to verify if he/she is indeed a member of the armed forces. 3) The scope of the armed forces will be discussed at the ISCO-08 workshop on 19 November /10/ / 79

2 Portugal ISCO-08 database For us the Major Group 0 only must include the military staff. All others occupations (doctors, clerks, drivers, etc.) must be classified in others Major Groups. 1) Use the definition "if member of the armed force then ISCO code 0". 2) Use ancillary variables to identify possible members of the armed forces (information on the employer, economic activity of the local unit Defence...) and in the case the person self declare be something else, ask an extra question to verify if he/she is indeed a member of the armed forces. 3) The scope of the armed forces will be discussed at the ISCO-08 workshop on 19 November Serbia Non-military occupations (employed in Army) should be classified in other adequate Groups; 1) Use the definition "if member of the armed force then ISCO code 0". 2) Use ancillary variables to identify possible members of the armed forces (information on the employer, economic activity of the local unit Defence...) and in the case the person self declare be something else, ask an extra question to verify if he/she is indeed a member of the armed forces. 3) The scope of the armed forces will be discussed at the ISCO-08 workshop on 19 November /10/ / 79

3 1 - Managers Malta Occupations, from whose title no more than a middle management function can be deduced (e.g. "Project leader", "Area manager", "Team leader" etc.), can only be allocated to the Major Group 1 "Managers" due to lack of further information. The task force considered more appropriate to focus in job titles together with the description of the tasks for the classification. Furthermore ILO included some paragraphs in the ISCO-08 introductory guidelines dedicated to the clarification of the borderlines between the different managerial and supervising occupations ( ). 178.The distinction between managers and supervisors may frequently cause difficulties. This problem existed in ISCO-88 but is highlighted in ISCO-08 as a result of the decision to identify some supervisory occupations separately from the occupations they supervise. The critical difference is that supervisors are responsible only for supervision of the activities of other workers, whereas those classified in Major group 1, Managers, have overall responsibility for the operations of a business or an organizational unit. 179.Both managers and supervisors plan, organize, coordinate, control and direct the work done by others. In addition, managers usually have responsibility for and make decisions about: (a) the overall strategic and operational direction of a business or organizational unit (for example about the kinds, quantity and quality of goods to be produced); (b) budgets (how much money is to be spent and for what purposes); and (c) the selection, appointment and dismissal of staff It is not a necessary condition that managers have responsibility for all three of strategic and operational direction, budgets and staff selection and dismissal. The degree of autonomy they exercise may also vary Supervisors may provide advice and assistance to managers on these matters, especially in relation to staff selection and dismissal, but do not have authority to make decisions. They usually have experience as workers in one or more of the occupations they supervise, and do not usually supervise the activities of workers employed in a wide range of occupations. 182.Managers do not necessarily know how to perform the work of all of the staff employed in the units they manage, although in some circumstances they may. It is frequently the case that managers plan, coordinate and control the activities or workers employed in a wide range of occupations. Finally the use of extra information to help the classification of these occupations shouldn't be excluded and one of the tasks of the ESEC ESS-net could be the elaboration of guidelines for additional, discriminatory questions which could be asked, for example during computer assisted interviewing, if the response to the initial question or questions were insufficient. 27/10/ / 79

4 Malta ISCO-08 database Managers/directors of small businesses - is there a specific company size and should we as a small country adapt to our national situation? 1) The from ISCO-08 introductory guidelines provide guidance on this issue: 185. There is a clear relationship between the size of the organization in which a worker is employed and categories in ISCO-08 related to management. For example, those occupations classified in Minor group 112, Managing directors and chief executives, are usually senior managers in organizations that are large enough to have a hierarchy of managers. Similarly, most occupations classified in Sub-major group 14, Hospitality, retail and other service managers are the managers of relatively small organizations that do not usually have hierarchies of managers. Workers classified in Sub-major groups 12, Administrative and commercial managers and 13, Production and specialized services managers may be employed in large hierarchical organizations or in relatively small organizations that provide specialist services to other organizations Despite these relationships, information about the size of the organization in which in individual manager is employed, is not generally relevant to decisions about the most appropriate ISCO-08 code. This is because ISCO-08 Major group 1 is organized according to functional specialization and not according to the size of the organization managed Although most shop managers, for example, are responsible for relatively small establishments, the managers of large supermarkets and department stores are still shop managers. They are classified with other shop managers in unit group 1420, Retail and wholesale trade managers. Taking another example, the key characteristics of chief executives, classified in Minor group 112, are that they coordinate and direct the activities of other managers who have a range of specialized functions and that they report to a board of directors. This is a result primarily of the way in which management and governance of the organization is arranged, and reflects the complexity of the organization s functions as much as its size It is therefore not recommended to use information about the size of the organization in which a worker is employed, measured in terms of number of employees or turnover, or the number of staff supervised to differentiate between managers classified in the different Sub-major groups of Major group 1. Similarly, information about organization size should not be used to differentiate managers from operators of small businesses classified in other major groups. The most reliable way to make these distinctions in statistical and administrative collections is likely to be to collect information about the both the occupation or job title and the main tasks or duties performed. 27/10/ / 79

5 12 - Administrative and commercial managers Lithuania It would be very useful to add some explanatory notes on the correspondence between ISCO-08 Unit Groups of managers and ISIC Rev. 4 (or NACE respectively) economic activities they manage. According to the explanations in CIRCA forum on ISCO implementation (discussion on the 4/02/2010), ISCO-08 code 1321 "Manufacturing managers" should include managers of production relating to ISIC Rev. 4 Section C "Manufacturing", D "Electricity, gas, steam and air conditioning supply", E "Water collection, treatment and supply", definition of ISCO-08 Unit Group 1321 will be amended accordingly. Such amendments would be valuable in all Unit Groups of ISCO-08 Sub-Major Groups 12, 13, 14 (especially it is important to specify economic activities in Unit Groups 1211, 1212, 1213, 1219, 1223, 1342, 1343, 1344, 1349, 1420, 1431, 1439). Because now it isn't enough clear where we should classify manager of veterinary hospital (1342 or 1349), manager of motor vehicles repair garage (1420 or 1439), manager of chemist's shop (1342 or 1420 or 1439), etc. The ISCO-08 Introductory guidelines tackle this question: 213.If information about the occupation title and tasks performed is inconclusive, information about the kind of economic activity (industry) of the establishment where the person is employed may be helpful - but should be treated with caution. For example, it would be reasonable to assume that a skilled farm worker on a livestock farm should be classified to unit group 6121, Livestock and dairy producers. It is possible, however, that some individual workers on mixed farms may specialize in either animal production or crop production. Mixed farms may, for example, employ both shepherds and tree pruners. 214.Information about the kind of economic activity may be found either in the form of written information provided in response to questions about the establishment in which the person is employed, or in the form of information coded to a classification of economic activities. Particular care needs to be taken when using coded information on the kind of economic activity of agricultural establishments to help assign occupation codes for workers. This is because precedence rules used to determine the predominant activity, for the purposes of economic statistics, may not be compatible with the purposes of an occupation classification based on the kind of work performed defined in terms of skill requirements. For example, the current version of the International Standard Industrial Classification of All Economic Activities (ISIC Rev.4) specifies that if either production of crops or animals in a given unit exceeds 66 per cent or more of standard gross margins, the combined activity should not be included in class 0150, Mixed farming but allocated to crop or animal farming. Workers who specialize in crop or animal farming may thus be employed on mixed farms that have been classified to ISIC categories associated with crop or animal production Whilst it is not possible, here, to prescribe strict rules that could be applied in all situations and national contexts, it should be clear from the above that information about economic activity of the establishment should not normally take precedence over information given about occupation title and tasks performed in the job. The important point is that the skills required for performance in the job is the main consideration in determining the most appropriate occupation code. Thus, if skills associated with both animal raising and crop production are essential requirements, then the job should be classified as mixed crop and animal production. 27/10/ / 79

6 13 - Production and specialised services managers Lithuania It would be very useful to add some explanatory notes on the correspondence between ISCO-08 Unit Groups of managers and ISIC Rev. 4 (or NACE respectively) economic activities they manage. According to the explanations in CIRCA forum on ISCO implementation (discussion on the 4/02/2010), ISCO-08 code 1321 "Manufacturing managers" should include managers of production relating to ISIC Rev. 4 Section C "Manufacturing", D "Electricity, gas, steam and air conditioning supply", E "Water collection, treatment and supply", definition of ISCO-08 Unit Group 1321 will be amended accordingly. Such amendments would be valuable in all Unit Groups of ISCO-08 Sub-Major Groups 12, 13, 14 (especially it is important to specify economic activities in Unit Groups 1211, 1212, 1213, 1219, 1223, 1342, 1343, 1344, 1349, 1420, 1431, 1439). Because now it isn't enough clear where we should classify manager of veterinary hospital (1342 or 1349), manager of motor vehicles repair garage (1420 or 1439), manager of chemist's shop (1342 or 1420 or 1439), etc. The ISCO-08 Introductory guidelines tackle this question: 213.If information about the occupation title and tasks performed is inconclusive, information about the kind of economic activity (industry) of the establishment where the person is employed may be helpful - but should be treated with caution. For example, it would be reasonable to assume that a skilled farm worker on a livestock farm should be classified to unit group 6121, Livestock and dairy producers. It is possible, however, that some individual workers on mixed farms may specialize in either animal production or crop production. Mixed farms may, for example, employ both shepherds and tree pruners. 214.Information about the kind of economic activity may be found either in the form of written information provided in response to questions about the establishment in which the person is employed, or in the form of information coded to a classification of economic activities. Particular care needs to be taken when using coded information on the kind of economic activity of agricultural establishments to help assign occupation codes for workers. This is because precedence rules used to determine the predominant activity, for the purposes of economic statistics, may not be compatible with the purposes of an occupation classification based on the kind of work performed defined in terms of skill requirements. For example, the current version of the International Standard Industrial Classification of All Economic Activities (ISIC Rev.4) specifies that if either production of crops or animals in a given unit exceeds 66 per cent or more of standard gross margins, the combined activity should not be included in class 0150, Mixed farming but allocated to crop or animal farming. Workers who specialize in crop or animal farming may thus be employed on mixed farms that have been classified to ISIC categories associated with crop or animal production Whilst it is not possible, here, to prescribe strict rules that could be applied in all situations and national contexts, it should be clear from the above that information about economic activity of the establishment should not normally take precedence over information given about occupation title and tasks performed in the job. The important point is that the skills required for performance in the job is the main consideration in determining the most appropriate occupation code. Thus, if skills associated with both animal raising and crop production are essential requirements, then the job should be classified as mixed crop and animal production. 27/10/ / 79

7 131 - Production managers in agriculture, forestry and fisheries Bulgaria Having in mind that in the ISCO-08 definitions are used "large enterprises and small manufacturing companies" (1321), as well as the differing of the managers in 131 and 6, it requires to have exact definition of these terms. The task force considered more appropriate to focus in job titles together with the description of the tasks for the classification. Furthermore ILO included some paragraphs in the ISCO-08 introductory guidelines dedicated to the clarification of the borderlines between the different managerial and supervising occupations ( ) The distinction between managers and supervisors may frequently cause difficulties. This problem existed in ISCO-88 but is highlighted in ISCO-08 as a result of the decision to identify some supervisory occupations separately from the occupations they supervise. The critical difference is that supervisors are responsible only for supervision of the activities of other workers, whereas those classified in Major group 1, Managers, have overall responsibility for the operations of a business or an organizational unit Both managers and supervisors plan, organize, coordinate, control and direct the work done by others. In addition, managers usually have responsibility for and make decisions about: (a) the overall strategic and operational direction of a business or organizational unit (for example about the kinds, quantity and quality of goods to be produced); (b) budgets (how much money is to be spent and for what purposes); and (c) the selection, appointment and dismissal of staff It is not a necessary condition that managers have responsibility for all three of strategic and operational direction, budgets and staff selection and dismissal. The degree of autonomy they exercise may also vary Supervisors may provide advice and assistance to managers on these matters, especially in relation to staff selection and dismissal, but do not have authority to make decisions. They usually have experience as workers in one or more of the occupations they supervise, and do not usually supervise the activities of workers employed in a wide range of occupations Managers do not necessarily know how to perform the work of all of the staff employed in the units they manage, although in some circumstances they may. It is frequently the case that managers plan, coordinate and control the activities or workers employed in a wide range of occupations. 27/10/ / 79

8 Manufacturing managers Bulgaria Unit Group 1321 to be added in the definition the text defining the correspondence to ISIC sectors C, D and E. Conclusion(s) Task Force : The ISCO-08 Introductory guidelines tackle this question: 213. If information about the occupation title and tasks performed is inconclusive, information about the kind of economic activity (industry) of the establishment where the person is employed may be helpful - but should be treated with caution. For example, it would be reasonable to assume that a skilled farm worker on a livestock farm should be classified to unit group 6121, Livestock and dairy producers. It is possible, however, that some individual workers on mixed farms may specialize in either animal production or crop production. Mixed farms may, for example, employ both shepherds and tree pruners Information about the kind of economic activity may be found either in the form of written information provided in response to questions about the establishment in which the person is employed, or in the form of information coded to a classification of economic activities. Particular care needs to be taken when using coded information on the kind of economic activity of agricultural establishments to help assign occupation codes for workers. This is because precedence rules used to determine the predominant activity, for the purposes of economic statistics, may not be compatible with the purposes of an occupation classification based on the kind of work performed defined in terms of skill requirements. For example, the current version of the International Standard Industrial Classification of All Economic Activities (ISIC Rev.4) specifies that if either production of crops or animals in a given unit exceeds 66 per cent or more of standard gross margins, the combined activity should not be included in class 0150, Mixed farming but allocated to crop or animal farming. Workers who specialize in crop or animal farming may thus be employed on mixed farms that have been classified to ISIC categories associated with crop or animal production Whilst it is not possible, here, to prescribe strict rules that could be applied in all situations and national contexts, it should be clear from the above that information about economic activity of the establishment should not normally take precedence over information given about occupation title and tasks performed in the job. The important point is that the skills required for performance in the job is the main consideration in determining the most appropriate occupation code. Thus, if skills associated with both animal raising and crop production are essential requirements, then the job should be classified as mixed crop and animal production. 27/10/ / 79

9 Bulgaria ISCO-08 database Having in mind that in the ISCO-08 definitions are used "large enterprises and small manufacturing companies" (1321), as well as the differing of the managers in 131 and 6, it requires to have exact definition of these terms. The task force considered more appropriate to focus in job titles together with the description of the tasks for the classification. Furthermore ILO included some paragraphs in the ISCO-08 introductory guidelines dedicated to the clarification of the borderlines between the different managerial and supervising occupations ( ) The distinction between managers and supervisors may frequently cause difficulties. This problem existed in ISCO-88 but is highlighted in ISCO-08 as a result of the decision to identify some supervisory occupations separately from the occupations they supervise. The critical difference is that supervisors are responsible only for supervision of the activities of other workers, whereas those classified in Major group 1, Managers, have overall responsibility for the operations of a business or an organizational unit Both managers and supervisors plan, organize, coordinate, control and direct the work done by others. In addition, managers usually have responsibility for and make decisions about: (a) the overall strategic and operational direction of a business or organizational unit (for example about the kinds, quantity and quality of goods to be produced); (b) budgets (how much money is to be spent and for what purposes); and (c) the selection, appointment and dismissal of staff It is not a necessary condition that managers have responsibility for all three of strategic and operational direction, budgets and staff selection and dismissal. The degree of autonomy they exercise may also vary Supervisors may provide advice and assistance to managers on these matters, especially in relation to staff selection and dismissal, but do not have authority to make decisions. They usually have experience as workers in one or more of the occupations they supervise, and do not usually supervise the activities of workers employed in a wide range of occupations Managers do not necessarily know how to perform the work of all of the staff employed in the units they manage, although in some circumstances they may. It is frequently the case that managers plan, coordinate and control the activities or workers employed in a wide range of occupations. 27/10/ / 79

10 Mining managers Mine manager and Mine deputy ) perform the same, or nearly the same, tasks as directors. 1) A set of harmonised questions to help identify supervisors or managers could be defined and tested by the ESeC ESS-net. An answer to this question is provided in the ISCO-08 introduction on paragraphs 179 to 182: Both managers and supervisors plan, organise, coordinate, control and direct the work done by others. In addition, managers usually have responsibility for and make decisions about: (a) the overall strategic and operational direction of a business or organisational unit (for example about the kinds, quantity and quality of goods to be produced); (b) budgets (how much money is to be spent and for what purposes); and (c) the selection, appointment and dismissal of staff. It is not a necessary condition that managers have responsibility for all three of strategic and operational direction, budgets and staff selection and dismissal. The degree of autonomy they exercise may also vary. Supervisors may provide advice and assistance to managers on these matters, especially in relation to staff selection and dismissal, but do not have authority to make decisions. They usually have experience as workers in one or more of the occupations they supervise, and do not usually supervise the activities of workers employed in a wide range of occupations. Managers do not necessarily know how to perform the work of all of the staff employed in the units they manage, although in some circumstances they may. It is frequently the case that managers plan, coordinate and control the activities or workers employed in a wide range of occupations Supply, distribution and related managers Bulgaria Spain Unit Group to improve the text adding the "passenger transport". The ISCO-08 definitions were amended taking this into account Where do we classify the manager of the department of garbage removal? The manager of the department of garbage removal should be classified in /10/ / 79

11 Health services managers Where are medical doctors if they are heads of section in the hospital classified? In which Group should they be classified or 221? 1) If they perform mostly management tasks they should be classified in /10/ / 79

12 Lithuania ISCO-08 database It would be very useful to add some explanatory notes on the correspondence between ISCO-08 Unit Groups of managers and ISIC Rev. 4 (or NACE respectively) economic activities they manage. According to the explanations in CIRCA forum on ISCO implementation (discussion on the 4/02/2010), ISCO-08 code 1321 "Manufacturing managers" should include managers of production relating to ISIC Rev. 4 Section C "Manufacturing", D "Electricity, gas, steam and air conditioning supply", E "Water collection, treatment and supply", definition of ISCO-08 Unit Group 1321 will be amended accordingly. Such amendments would be valuable in all Unit Groups of ISCO-08 Sub-Major Groups 12, 13, 14 (especially it is important to specify economic activities in Unit Groups 1211, 1212, 1213, 1219, 1223, 1342, 1343, 1344, 1349, 1420, 1431, 1439). Because now it isn't enough clear where we should classify manager of veterinary hospital (1342 or 1349), manager of motor vehicles repair garage (1420 or 1439), manager of chemist's shop (1342 or 1420 or 1439), etc. The ISCO-08 Introductory guidelines tackle this question: 213.If information about the occupation title and tasks performed is inconclusive, information about the kind of economic activity (industry) of the establishment where the person is employed may be helpful - but should be treated with caution. For example, it would be reasonable to assume that a skilled farm worker on a livestock farm should be classified to unit group 6121, Livestock and dairy producers. It is possible, however, that some individual workers on mixed farms may specialize in either animal production or crop production. Mixed farms may, for example, employ both shepherds and tree pruners. 214.Information about the kind of economic activity may be found either in the form of written information provided in response to questions about the establishment in which the person is employed, or in the form of information coded to a classification of economic activities. Particular care needs to be taken when using coded information on the kind of economic activity of agricultural establishments to help assign occupation codes for workers. This is because precedence rules used to determine the predominant activity, for the purposes of economic statistics, may not be compatible with the purposes of an occupation classification based on the kind of work performed defined in terms of skill requirements. For example, the current version of the International Standard Industrial Classification of All Economic Activities (ISIC Rev.4) specifies that if either production of crops or animals in a given unit exceeds 66 per cent or more of standard gross margins, the combined activity should not be included in class 0150, Mixed farming but allocated to crop or animal farming. Workers who specialize in crop or animal farming may thus be employed on mixed farms that have been classified to ISIC categories associated with crop or animal production Whilst it is not possible, here, to prescribe strict rules that could be applied in all situations and national contexts, it should be clear from the above that information about economic activity of the establishment should not normally take precedence over information given about occupation title and tasks performed in the job. The important point is that the skills required for performance in the job is the main consideration in determining the most appropriate occupation code. Thus, if skills associated with both animal raising and crop production are essential requirements, then the job should be classified as mixed crop and animal production. 27/10/ / 79

13 Professional services managers not elsewhere classified Norway What is the borderline between 1349 van 1439? 1) The borderlines are dealt with in the notes for Sub-Major Group 14. "Sub-major group 14, Hospitality, shop and related managers is for managers of establishments that provide services directly to the public, usually in organizations that are too small to have hierarchies of managers. Managers responsible for planning, directing and coordinating the provision of specialized professional and technical services that usually require specialized qualifications are classified in various unit groups in Sub-major groups 12, Administrative and commercial managers and 13, Production and specialized services managers." A similar note will be added to 1349 and /10/ / 79

14 14 - Hospitality, retail and other services managers Lithuania It would be very useful to add some explanatory notes on the correspondence between ISCO-08 Unit Groups of managers and ISIC Rev. 4 (or NACE respectively) economic activities they manage. According to the explanations in CIRCA forum on ISCO implementation (discussion on the 4/02/2010), ISCO-08 code 1321 "Manufacturing managers" should include managers of production relating to ISIC Rev. 4 Section C "Manufacturing", D "Electricity, gas, steam and air conditioning supply", E "Water collection, treatment and supply", definition of ISCO-08 Unit Group 1321 will be amended accordingly. Such amendments would be valuable in all Unit Groups of ISCO-08 Sub-Major Groups 12, 13, 14 (especially it is important to specify economic activities in Unit Groups 1211, 1212, 1213, 1219, 1223, 1342, 1343, 1344, 1349, 1420, 1431, 1439). Because now it isn't enough clear where we should classify manager of veterinary hospital (1342 or 1349), manager of motor vehicles repair garage (1420 or 1439), manager of chemist's shop (1342 or 1420 or 1439), etc. The ISCO-08 Introductory guidelines tackle this question: 213.If information about the occupation title and tasks performed is inconclusive, information about the kind of economic activity (industry) of the establishment where the person is employed may be helpful - but should be treated with caution. For example, it would be reasonable to assume that a skilled farm worker on a livestock farm should be classified to unit group 6121, Livestock and dairy producers. It is possible, however, that some individual workers on mixed farms may specialize in either animal production or crop production. Mixed farms may, for example, employ both shepherds and tree pruners. 214.Information about the kind of economic activity may be found either in the form of written information provided in response to questions about the establishment in which the person is employed, or in the form of information coded to a classification of economic activities. Particular care needs to be taken when using coded information on the kind of economic activity of agricultural establishments to help assign occupation codes for workers. This is because precedence rules used to determine the predominant activity, for the purposes of economic statistics, may not be compatible with the purposes of an occupation classification based on the kind of work performed defined in terms of skill requirements. For example, the current version of the International Standard Industrial Classification of All Economic Activities (ISIC Rev.4) specifies that if either production of crops or animals in a given unit exceeds 66 per cent or more of standard gross margins, the combined activity should not be included in class 0150, Mixed farming but allocated to crop or animal farming. Workers who specialize in crop or animal farming may thus be employed on mixed farms that have been classified to ISIC categories associated with crop or animal production Whilst it is not possible, here, to prescribe strict rules that could be applied in all situations and national contexts, it should be clear from the above that information about economic activity of the establishment should not normally take precedence over information given about occupation title and tasks performed in the job. The important point is that the skills required for performance in the job is the main consideration in determining the most appropriate occupation code. Thus, if skills associated with both animal raising and crop production are essential requirements, then the job should be classified as mixed crop and animal production. 27/10/ / 79

15 Retail and wholesale trade managers Lithuania It would be very useful to add some explanatory notes on the correspondence between ISCO-08 Unit Groups of managers and ISIC Rev. 4 (or NACE respectively) economic activities they manage. According to the explanations in CIRCA forum on ISCO implementation (discussion on the 4/02/2010), ISCO-08 code 1321 "Manufacturing managers" should include managers of production relating to ISIC Rev. 4 Section C "Manufacturing", D "Electricity, gas, steam and air conditioning supply", E "Water collection, treatment and supply", definition of ISCO-08 Unit Group 1321 will be amended accordingly. Such amendments would be valuable in all Unit Groups of ISCO-08 Sub-Major Groups 12, 13, 14 (especially it is important to specify economic activities in Unit Groups 1211, 1212, 1213, 1219, 1223, 1342, 1343, 1344, 1349, 1420, 1431, 1439). Because now it isn't enough clear where we should classify manager of veterinary hospital (1342 or 1349), manager of motor vehicles repair garage (1420 or 1439), manager of chemist's shop (1342 or 1420 or 1439), etc. The ISCO-08 Introductory guidelines tackle this question: 213.If information about the occupation title and tasks performed is inconclusive, information about the kind of economic activity (industry) of the establishment where the person is employed may be helpful - but should be treated with caution. For example, it would be reasonable to assume that a skilled farm worker on a livestock farm should be classified to unit group 6121, Livestock and dairy producers. It is possible, however, that some individual workers on mixed farms may specialize in either animal production or crop production. Mixed farms may, for example, employ both shepherds and tree pruners. 214.Information about the kind of economic activity may be found either in the form of written information provided in response to questions about the establishment in which the person is employed, or in the form of information coded to a classification of economic activities. Particular care needs to be taken when using coded information on the kind of economic activity of agricultural establishments to help assign occupation codes for workers. This is because precedence rules used to determine the predominant activity, for the purposes of economic statistics, may not be compatible with the purposes of an occupation classification based on the kind of work performed defined in terms of skill requirements. For example, the current version of the International Standard Industrial Classification of All Economic Activities (ISIC Rev.4) specifies that if either production of crops or animals in a given unit exceeds 66 per cent or more of standard gross margins, the combined activity should not be included in class 0150, Mixed farming but allocated to crop or animal farming. Workers who specialize in crop or animal farming may thus be employed on mixed farms that have been classified to ISIC categories associated with crop or animal production Whilst it is not possible, here, to prescribe strict rules that could be applied in all situations and national contexts, it should be clear from the above that information about economic activity of the establishment should not normally take precedence over information given about occupation title and tasks performed in the job. The important point is that the skills required for performance in the job is the main consideration in determining the most appropriate occupation code. Thus, if skills associated with both animal raising and crop production are essential requirements, then the job should be classified as mixed crop and animal production. 27/10/ / 79

16 Services managers not elsewhere classified Lithuania It would be very useful to add some explanatory notes on the correspondence between ISCO-08 Unit Groups of managers and ISIC Rev. 4 (or NACE respectively) economic activities they manage. According to the explanations in CIRCA forum on ISCO implementation (discussion on the 4/02/2010), ISCO-08 code 1321 "Manufacturing managers" should include managers of production relating to ISIC Rev. 4 Section C "Manufacturing", D "Electricity, gas, steam and air conditioning supply", E "Water collection, treatment and supply", definition of ISCO-08 Unit Group 1321 will be amended accordingly. Such amendments would be valuable in all Unit Groups of ISCO-08 Sub-Major Groups 12, 13, 14 (especially it is important to specify economic activities in Unit Groups 1211, 1212, 1213, 1219, 1223, 1342, 1343, 1344, 1349, 1420, 1431, 1439). Because now it isn't enough clear where we should classify manager of veterinary hospital (1342 or 1349), manager of motor vehicles repair garage (1420 or 1439), manager of chemist's shop (1342 or 1420 or 1439), etc. The ISCO-08 Introductory guidelines tackle this question: 213.If information about the occupation title and tasks performed is inconclusive, information about the kind of economic activity (industry) of the establishment where the person is employed may be helpful - but should be treated with caution. For example, it would be reasonable to assume that a skilled farm worker on a livestock farm should be classified to unit group 6121, Livestock and dairy producers. It is possible, however, that some individual workers on mixed farms may specialize in either animal production or crop production. Mixed farms may, for example, employ both shepherds and tree pruners. 214.Information about the kind of economic activity may be found either in the form of written information provided in response to questions about the establishment in which the person is employed, or in the form of information coded to a classification of economic activities. Particular care needs to be taken when using coded information on the kind of economic activity of agricultural establishments to help assign occupation codes for workers. This is because precedence rules used to determine the predominant activity, for the purposes of economic statistics, may not be compatible with the purposes of an occupation classification based on the kind of work performed defined in terms of skill requirements. For example, the current version of the International Standard Industrial Classification of All Economic Activities (ISIC Rev.4) specifies that if either production of crops or animals in a given unit exceeds 66 per cent or more of standard gross margins, the combined activity should not be included in class 0150, Mixed farming but allocated to crop or animal farming. Workers who specialize in crop or animal farming may thus be employed on mixed farms that have been classified to ISIC categories associated with crop or animal production Whilst it is not possible, here, to prescribe strict rules that could be applied in all situations and national contexts, it should be clear from the above that information about economic activity of the establishment should not normally take precedence over information given about occupation title and tasks performed in the job. The important point is that the skills required for performance in the job is the main consideration in determining the most appropriate occupation code. Thus, if skills associated with both animal raising and crop production are essential requirements, then the job should be classified as mixed crop and animal production. 27/10/ / 79

17 Norway Spain What is the borderline between 1349 van 1439? ISCO-08 database 1) The borderlines are dealt with in the notes for Sub-Major Group 14. "Sub-major group 14, Hospitality, shop and related managers is for managers of establishments that provide services directly to the public, usually in organizations that are too small to have hierarchies of managers. Managers responsible for planning, directing and coordinating the provision of specialized professional and technical services that usually require specialized qualifications are classified in various unit groups in Sub-major groups 12, Administrative and commercial managers and 13, Production and specialized services managers." A similar note will be added to 1349 and Where do we classify the manager of the department of garbage removal? The manager of the department of garbage removal should be classified in Environmental engineers Austria Can you give us some examples for occupations classified in 2143? 1) See ISCO-08 index (to be completed). - Engineer, environmental - Engineer, process: waste water 27/10/ / 79

18 Norway ISCO-08 database How to distinguish Environmental engineers (2143) Environmental and occupational health and hygiene professionals (2263) and Environmental and occupational health inspectors and associates (3257)? A common rule/guideline: inspectors in 3 and researchers and planners in 2? 1) An environmental engineer in 2143 performs engineering tasks (developing and designing products) aiming at improving the environment. 2) 2263 covers occupations monitoring the impact of environment on human health, at work or anywhere else, for example radiation protection experts. 3) 2133 focuses on preserving the natural environment. 4) A paragraph in the introductory guidelines will be added to better understand the distinction Medical doctors Where are medical doctors if they are heads of section in the hospital classified? In which Group should they be classified or 221? 1) If they perform mostly management tasks they should be classified in /10/ / 79

19 Spain ISCO-08 database How do we make the difference between Groups 2230 (traditional and complementary medicine professionals) and 3230 (traditional and complementary medicine associate professionals) occupations when no formal health qualification is indicated along with a denomination? In relation to the following foot note for ISCO-08 codes of the explanatory notes: Occupations in traditional and complementary medicine whose practice requires an extensive understanding of the benefits and applications of traditional and complementary therapies, developed as the result of extended formal study of these techniques as well as human anatomy and elements of modern medicine, are classified in Unit Group 2230, Traditional and complementary medicine professionals. Those whose practice requires a less extensive understanding based on relatively short periods of formal or informal education and training, or informally through the traditions and practices of the communities where they originated, are included in Unit Group 3230, Traditional and complementary medicine associate professionals. What shall we understand as "formal study"? Doest it make reference to ISCED level 5? Should national regulation on the practice of health professions be taken into account? 1) 199 of the ISCO-08 introductory guidelines provide the answer: 199. A comprehensive list of the occupational titles included in each group is included in the definitions of categories and in the ISCO index. Care should be taken, however, in interpreting these occupational titles in national contexts, as the scope of practice and mature of the tasks performed by individuals using these and similar occupation titles may vary from country to country. There may, in some countries, be a limited framework for the recognition of qualifications in the field of complementary medicine, or the regulatory framework may not allow the performance of certain tasks. As with other occupational groups, the distinction between these two groups should be made on the basis of the tasks performed in these occupations in the national setting, rather than on the qualifications held by individuals. For example, it may be appropriate to classify practitioners who administer treatments within the framework of a treatment plan established by others in unit group 3320, rather than in unit group /10/ / 79

20 Generalist medical practitioners Spain How do we classify a generalist medical practitioner (=someone who has completed the corresponding university degree) who practices its profession with an alternative, traditional o complementary orientation? Generalist medical practitioners or Traditional and complementary medicine professionals 1) National regulations in the field of traditional and complementary medicine professionals may vary. 2) When a generalist medical practitioner also is working as traditional and complementary medicine professional the rule of prevalence should be applied, resulting in either 2211 or ) Those who declare themselves doctors in traditional medicine should be coded on /10/ / 79

21 222 - Nursing and midwifery professionals Belgium Occupations which up till a few years ago did not need to have a tertiary level of education and which today are considered in the professional category - these include nurses and teachers. We have problems because our employed are a mix of both and at the moment we are assigning codes according to not only the occupation but also to the educational level. We classify teachers with no tertiary qualification are assigned a code 331 to 334. Some years ago schools used to admit teachers with post secondary level of education (ISCED 3 to 4) especially in areas of vocational education. These persons are still in the labour market and even though they do the same work as teachers with tertiary qualification (but of course in their areas) we consider them to be ISCO 3 because they are less qualified. We are adopting the same approach like nurses of the ISCO-08 introductory guidelines deal with this question: 70. A significant problem in ISCO-88 related to occupations that required the performance of similar tasks and duties (or content) but had a different (higher or lower) skill level requirement, as measured in particular countries based on formal educational qualifications. This is because, given realistic differences in national education systems, the same occupation (with the same set of tasks and duties), can be undertaken by individuals with different levels of formal educational, without affecting the level of skill required for competent performance of the tasks. 71. The ISCO-88 guidelines recommended that occupations with higher or lower skill requirements, in the national context, than those assigned in ISCO-88 be classified to the major group corresponding to the skill level that was required for such jobs in the country concerned. This approach tended to reduce international comparability, as occupations with similar content in terms of the tasks performed were classified in different ISCO-88 major groups depending on the country. This was particularly the case when skill level was interpreted primarily in terms of the level of formal education and training required in the national context. 72. Two of the most obvious cases where this was a problem in ISCO-88, related to the treatment of nurses and primary and pre-primary school teachers. In some countries, nurses and teachers require a university degree while in others they do not. At the time ISCO-88 was adopted, this situation was resolved by assigning these occupations to parallel minor groups, one in Major group 2 and another in Major group 3. These occupational groups were to be used alternatively, that is, countries were to classify all teachers and all nurses either in Major group 2 or in Major group 3, except in cases where there were real differences in the tasks and duties performed. Given that ISCO-88 descriptions for teachers and nurses are identical in both major groups, however, it is understandable that a number of countries made the distinction between professional and associate professional workers on the basis of the education level of the job holder, or of the typical educational requirements in the country, and not on the basis of the tasks and duties actually performed. 73. For ISCO-08, this problem was addressed by giving job content (i.e. tasks and duties) priority over national education and training requirements. In other words, occupations that involve the performance of broadly the same sets of tasks and duties are always classified in the same category in ISCO-08, even in cases where national skill level requirements measured in terms of formal education are different. It is hoped that this will lead to an improvement in international comparability. 27/10/ / 79