Q. -- that someone could split up a transaction? A. It actually can happen. Yeah, you can do that. Q. And so, the best we can tell is that at that

Transcription

1 A. No. Q. -- that someone could split up a transaction? A. It actually can happen. Yeah, you can do that. Q. And so, the best we can tell is that at that particular time this defendant swiped a credit card at your store, right? A. Yes. 0 MS. MANCE: MR. NEYLAND: THE COURT: Pass the witness. Nothing further, Your Honor. You may step down, sir. Call your next witness. MS. MANCE: State calls John Carlos. 0 THE COURT: All right. Go ahead. JOHN CARLOS, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. MANCE: Q. Please introduce yourself to the jury. A. My name is John Carlos. I'm with the Woodforest National Bank and I'm the lead fraud investigator. Q. How long have you been employed with Woodforest Bank? A. Since 00. Q. And have you always been one of the fraud

2 0 0 investigators? A. I've been a fraud investigator for about six years now, since 00. Q. At your particular location, what is sort of the general process for someone to make a fraud claim, if you know? A. To make a fraud claim? Q. Yes. A. Any particular fraud type of claim? Q. If there are fraudulent transactions on someone's debit or credit card. A. The customer would come into one of our -- you know, the most convenient location for them and inform them that there's been unauthorized transactions and file the necessary disputes. Q. And after that information is received, what happens? A. After that, the location will submit it to the appropriate division, whether it be debit card fraud or corporate security for an investigation and processing. Q. In your position, do you also have the opportunity to sort of go through the bank records and documents in a fraud investigation? A. I do, yes. MS. MANCE: Permission to approach the

3 0 witness? THE COURT: All right. Q. (By Ms. Mance) I'm handing you what's been marked as Defense Exhibit No.. Can you flip through this and let me know if you recognize the documents (indicating)? A. That's our debit card dispute of unauthorized transactions. There's a series of questions that's asked to the customer when the customer comes in and 0 then they're asked to sign and date it. Again, it's just the second page. And then the customer's statement, which is signed and dated. And then these 0 pages here seem to be the customer's bank statements that are sent to them on a monthly basis. Q. So, you're familiar with all of these documents? A. Absolutely. Q. And then do you have a copy there that you can use to refer as well? A. Sure. Q. Refer to as well. A. Sure. Q. And let's just go through and make sure that you're looking at the same things. A. Sorry. There's these, this second page,

4 statement, statement, correct, and these last two, which is -- correct (indicating). jury, Your Honor? MS. MANCE: THE COURT: Permission to publish to the Okay. Q. (By Ms. Mance) Let's go through these records a little bit. Up top, obviously, we see the name of the 0 bank, Woodforest, correct (indicating)? Q. And the accountholder is -- what's that name? A. It's Derick M. Fuentes. Q. And what's the card number ending in? A. 0. Q. And the case I.D. number, is that a number assigned by the fraud division? A. Correct, through our system, an automatic generated I.D. number. Q. Now, there are a list of unauthorized transactions. Can you just briefly go through the date 0 and the location? A. Sure. The first one that's on the -- from top to bottom, it's dated -, 0, for a dollar. It's at Highfive Food Mart. Second one is -, 0, for a dollar at Stripes, store number 00. The third one, -0, 0, for.. That's at West Wind Mini-Mart.

5 The fourth one, -, 0, for. at Jack-In-The-Box. The fifth one, -, 0, for. at Fuel Express. And the sixth one, -, 0, for a dollar at Highway. And -- for a dollar at 0 the same location, Highway. Q. And this particular document was signed and dated when? A. It was dated -- signed and dated by our customer on -, 0. Q. So, let's talk about this a little bit. We see a lot of one-dollar transactions. Is that uncommon for sort of the pre-authorization from places like gas stations or other locations? A. It's common. They -- what they do, like such as gas stations, they'll pre-authorize just to make sure that the funds will go through. So, this seems to be 0 pre-authorized for a dollar, which would later be updated to the appropriate amount. Q. So, would it be fair to say that at the time the customer is making this claim, some of the charges aren't even finalized as far as money or that sort of thing? A. You are correct. Q. And in your experience, is it uncommon for the first reported transactions to be different from the

6 0 final disputed transactions that appear? A. You are correct. Q. So, this would just be sort of a starting place for -- A. Exactly, a starter. Q. Okay. And we have a few statements here. Would those have been provided by the victim? Q. So, that would have been Mr. Fuentes? A. Exactly. Q. And can you read No. for us? A. No.? I realize there was unauthorized activity on my card on my account on -, 0. If my 0 card was lost or stolen, I realized my card was lost or stolen on -, 0. Q. And, again, this next page, are these just questions in regards to the transactions and the account? It's a series of questions that our employees have to ask any time disputes are being filed. Q. And if you can, sort of read to us the first and second question here. A. Okay. The select reason for dispute. The answer was: The transaction was not authorized by me.

7 The second one was, card possession status: have possession of the card. Q. And what about the next question? I no longer A. The next question would be, card possession status: The card was not in my possession. Q. And then if you can skip down to the final two questions. What information do you see there? A. Why do you suspect this person? They were the only ones around at the time. And how did they gain 0 access to your card or card number? pool. Taken from table at Q. And let me -- I'm sorry -- actually back up to the third-to-the-last question. What is that? A. Third to the last? Please provide me the name and contact information of the person. Neighbors: Chuck, Dustin, Gloria, Joleen. are known. None of their last names Q. And the question right before that is just: Do 0 you know or suspect who conducted the transaction. that right? Q. And on the next page in regards to the Is questions, as of -- what was the answer in regards to filing a police report? A. The answer is no.

8 Q. Now, what are we looking at right now (indicating)? A. This is the customer's statement that was written by Mr. Justin -- Derick Fuentes that was provided by him. Q. And do you mind reading that for us? A. I do not. At the pool. Stolen from table while we walked around. It was Derick Fuentes' wallet with his 0 driver's license, Woodforest Mastercard, state inspection license. Left the pool around :0 p.m., went to the store to realize none of us had the wallet. Looked for it all day on September th. Was not found. Went to bank and realized they had made a couple of transactions. Our neighbors were with us at pool. When the -- went to Foot Locker, saw the video and realized it was our neighbors, Chuck and Dustin, were on the video. guy. Chuck is the big guy and Dustin is the skinny They both live a -- at Savannah Place Apartments. 0 The address is 00 Winterchase -- Windchase Boulevard, Houston, Texas, 0. by Mr. Fuentes. And then it was signed and dated Q. This next document, what is it (indicating)? A. This is a -- the first page of Derick Fuentes' bank statement. Statement period August th through

9 September th, 0. Q. So, this document would have been made at least after September th. Is that fair to say? 0 0 Q. So, this is after all the initial charges and everything is settled out in the account? Q. If we're looking at these transactions, would we see a cancelled transaction? A. No. Cancelled transactions would not show on a customer's account, as it never processed through. Q. So, if my card is swiped and there's a pre-authorized charge at a place, would I be able to see that online or instantly? A. You -- we, the bank, might be able to see it as far as a pending transaction -- Q. Right. A. -- but you would not be able to see it on the bank's final statement or the customer's final statement if it was dropped off. Q. So, it's possible for a customer to see a pending transaction in the bank, right? Q. On a certain date?

10 0 0 Q. And come back a couple weeks later with the official record and it not be present? Q. And that is the case for any transaction that is not completely accepted or processed? Q. So, that goes for cancelled transactions? Q. Declined transactions? Q. So, if it doesn't process, you're not going to see it in here? Q. In your opinion, would the pre-authorized transaction that your bank is able to see at the time, would that be an accurate representation? A. I'm not sure what the question is. Q. Sure. If there is a pre-authorized transaction on my account with Woodforest -- A. Uh-huh. Q. -- and I go to Woodforest Bank to see it, to your knowledge, would those documents or would that screen-shot be accurate? Q. Have you ever seen a screen-shot?

11 0 A. I have. Q. And those screen-shots, are you able to go back in time and create records of that? A. Of screen-shots? Q. Yes. A. I would not be able to. Q. So, in your experience, you've never been able to go back in time and recreate those temporary transactions? We, the bank, cannot do that. Q. So, it's a snapshot in time that you can only capture once? MS. MANCE: witness, Your Honor? THE COURT: Permission to approach the Okay. Q. (By Ms. Mance) I'm handing you what's been marked as State's Exhibit No.. Can you look at this 0 document and see is there anything about it that you recognize as being associated with Woodforest Bank (indicating)? A. This is a screen-shot of one of our bank statements at the time at Woodforest. Q. And what unique identifiers about this document tell you that it is accurate?

12 A. Just the -- I guess the address at the bottom, the date printed, you know, the way -- the formatting and then the identifiers from the pending transactions and how they're posted. This is a bank replica of what 0 0 we would have screen-shot. Q. So, you see this address that links back to Woodforest; is that correct? Q. The format, as far as the account, names, the number, the time, the date, all that that appears to be consistent with your business? A. With our business, absolutely correct. Q. And as well as the format in regards to the date, the time, and the location of the transaction. Does that appear consistent with your bank? A. Yes, it does. Q. Just to be clear, you aren't the one who took the screen-shot, but these appear to be accurate for Woodforest Bank? A. You are correct. I did not, but they do appear to be accurate screen-shots of a Woodforest National Bank Statement. MS. MANCE: Your Honor, at this time, State would offer State's Exhibit No. and tenders to defense counsel for inspection.

13 0 (State's Exhibit No. Offered) MR. NEYLAND: Your Honor, I object. This is not an authenticated document. It's also hearsay. THE COURT: Overruled. State's is admitted. (State's Exhibit No. Admitted) Q. (By Ms. Mance) I'm going to take one moment to 0 take away the documents that we were looking at. going to show you what we've just admitted into evidence. Now, just to be clear, we have some markings on here that are through some of the screen-shot; is that right (indicating)? I'm 0 Q. And even with these markings, you're still able to see the documentation that you need to see, right? Q. Okay. So, let's talk about the document. Up top, who's the accountholder (indicating)? A. Derick M. Fuentes. Q. All right. And the account number? A. It's. Q. And would that be associated with the debit or credit card or just the bank account itself? A. That would be the last four of the bank account

14 0 number. Q. Okay. So, that's different from your card number, right? Q. What is the balance date? A. The balance date is --0. Q. And what time? A. It was at : p.m. central time. Q. And then the "0," that's just going to be the second count? A. Yes, second. Correct. Q. So, let's go to the very top. From what you can read, what does that say? A. The very top one? Start from the top? Q. Yes. A. It is an ATM transaction. It was for.. It was at Fuel Express in Houston. It was a pre-authorization. The next one is an ATM transaction. 0 It was for., pre-authorized from Highfive Food Mart in Houston, Texas. Q. I'm sorry. Let me stop you right there. This section that we're looking at, this is pending transactions as of that time? A. That is correct, pending at that time. Q. Now, is it possible for all of these to read as

15 0 teller ATM and then down the road actually get put into a different category? A. Yes, it is. Q. Okay. So, just because we see ATM right here doesn't mean at the end of the day it's not going to be qualified as -- A. As an ATM transaction. Q. Okay. And so, we would look to the final bank documents to see exactly how it was finally processed? And they were processed as a point-of-sale or POS transactions. Q. Okay. So, ATM in the pending document later on might show up as a point-of-sale, which is what we traditionally think of as a card swipe? Q. Okay. Now, let's get to the third -- A. Third one -- Q. -- transaction. A. The third one down states ATM for., 0 pre-authorized at Foot Locker. Texas. And they're in Houston, The fourth one is -- Q. I'm sorry. Let me stop you again. A. No problem. Q. Can you read the date and the time for that

16 0 particular card swipe? A. Date and time? It looks to be -- -, 0 at ::0 p.m. Q. And so, that would be the exact time that the transaction goes through as far as you can -- A. That it was processed and sent to Woodforest. Q. And based on your experience if we're able to go to this location at that exact time, that exact day, we would expect to see, perhaps, that card being used. Is that fair to say? A. That is fair to say, yes. Q. So, something like a surveillance video might show the exact time and date that that transaction happened. Is that fair to say? Q. Okay. And let's skip down. If you can go to the actual posted transactions. I know that's sort of unclear. overdrawn? At what point do you see that the account is 0 A. That would be on -, 0, it became overdrawn, it looks like, $0.. overdraft fee of $. Processed by an Q. So, in your experience, any transaction that happens after the account is overdraft -- over-drafted, it may or may not actually go through. Is that fair to

17 say? 0 Q. So, it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for one of your businesses to get some sort of prompt from the bank about the status, if you know? A. I don't know that. Q. Okay. But after this point, the funds are not in the account, right? Q. And that would affect all of these pending transactions possibly? Q. Let's go back to the bank records, then, that we were looking at. So, again, we have the account 0 that's ending in, right? Q. And that's the actual account number that's associated with the victim in this case, right? Q. Under the deposits and other credits, what does this section tell us? A. This tells us all credits that were applied to the -- to the customer's account. Q. And this would have been after the fraud dispute in the end of the statement period on

18 0 September th of 0? Q. So, again, at this point anything that didn't actually get authorized is not going to be represented, right? A. True. Q. Can you tell us how many disputes or credits were given back to the account at this point? A. It looks like there's eight total credits that were applied to the account. Q. And can you go through and just identify by the amount and the location -- A. Okay. The first one -- Q. -- for the credits? A. -- from the top to bottom, it was on -. There was a deposit. It seems to be by our customer for,.. The next one, which would be -, it looks to be a -dollar refund from the bank. The third one 0 down is for., which was a deposit made by the customer. The fourth one down, it was for.. It was a point-of-sale credit dispute from West Wind Mini-Mart. The next one down is 0., which is a POS credit, a dispute from Texaco. The next one down is for.. It's a POS credit from dispute from Highfive

19 Food Mart. The next one down is $, which is another 0 0 refund from the bank. And the last one is for., which is four -- four disputes that were credited to the customer's account. Q. Are there any particular reasons why the last four disputes aren't listed out or does it just depend? A. To be -- it kind of depends on how they processed them, but I would not be able to explain why particularly. Q. Let's go to the next page. Have you had an opportunity to sort of go through these transactions on this page? A. I have. Q. And are these withdrawals? A. These are withdrawals, yes, withdrawals and debits from the customer's account. Q. Now, of the three disputes that we've gone through, do you see them being processed here as a withdrawal or debit? A. Yes, I do. Q. Now, if you'd turn to that screen that's right next to you, you can make a mark by pressing your finger down. Can you just press your finger down over the three specific locations that we went over earlier?

20 0 A. The locations? Okay. Do I just highlight them? Q. Yeah. Probably not over the amounts. A. Oh, sorry. Q. Just next to the amount. A. My apologies. Q. That's okay. A. There you go (indicating). Q. And were you able to find the other four disputes that total.? A. I was. Q. And can you highlight those for us as well? A. Okay (indicating). I did not mean to do that. Q. That's okay. All right. And so, which -- if you can 0 just read that for us, which are those that equal -- A. The four? Q. Yes. A. The four are.0. It's a debit card -- or a point-of-sale transaction at Harvey -- Harvey's, The Dam Ice in Houston. There is.0, which is a point-of-sale transaction at Harvey's The Dam Ice in Houston, Texas. There is a. -- or -- yes --. point-of-sale transaction at Jack-In-The-Box there in

21 Houston, Texas. And there's a. debit card dispute 0 0 for Fuel Express in Houston, Texas. Q. So, of all of these transactions, how many times do you see that the West Wind Mini-Mart was used? A. I see the West Wind Mini-Mart, looks like, three times. Q. Now, is it possible that when you have transactions coming from the same place three different times, that someone could overlook that particular transaction? A. It is possible, yes. Q. And would that be a fair explanation as to why one of those West Wind Mini-Marts weren't covered? A. I would say so. Q. And all of these transactions posted between - and -? Q. Now, does that necessarily mean that's when the card was swiped or just when it was finally processed? A. When it was processed. Q. So, those days could be a little off here or there? Q. And, again, as far as transactions -- as far as seeing a transaction when it literally has been swiped,

22 would screen-shots be the best view for the bank? A. For the bank, yes. Q. And the remaining pages of the document, would it be fair to say that those continue far beyond the time period that we're looking at? A. That would be correct. Q. So, after the disputes were resolved? A. Uh-huh, that is correct. 0 MS. MANCE: THE COURT: MR. NEYLAND: Pass the witness. Mr. Neyland. Thank you, Judge. CROSS-EXAMINATION 0 BY MR. NEYLAND: Q. At what date and time was the card cut off after it was reported stolen? A. I do not have that information. Q. Do you have any idea what day it was cut off? A. Usually when -- I would assume on -. I can only make an assumption at this point, only because typically when a customer files disputes, we, in most cases, shut the card down at that point. Q. And on these point-of-sale transactions, is there any way to see if a PIN number was entered? A. If a PIN number was entered? I would have to consult with our dispute process -- our processing

23 0 0 0 department to see if there was a PIN number entered or not. Q. Well, where it says: POS DB, "DB" means debit, correct? A. Debit. Q. Now, if it's run through as a credit, would it indicate any differently? A. I would not be able to tell you. Q. So, is it possible that -- so, it's very possible these could have been debit transactions with a PIN number? A. I would say -- I mean, it could possibly be. Q. So, in Woodforest's system -- and I know you said that you couldn't pull the record up, but in Woodforest Bank's system there's no way of getting a record of a declined charge or an authorization that went through and didn't post? A. An authorization, as to my knowledge, I'm not able to pull. For example, that other page that showed pending transactions, if those were to fall off and not be processed, I would not be able to recreate that. Q. Would somebody else be able to recreate that? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. So, in a fraud investigation you really wouldn't know whether a card was used or not if the

24 0 0 authorization didn't actually go through? A. If the card was used or not? Q. Correct. A. I would not. Q. So, when they do these screen-shots, is there a file that they put them in to show where the card was being used? A. I would not be able to answer that question because I'm not sure who even performed that screen-shot. Q. Do you even know where this screen-shot came from? A. I do not. Q. It is possible it could have been created by somebody other than a Woodforest representative? A. I would not be able to -- I can only attest to it looks like a -- one of our screen-shots based off of our system. Q. But we don't know if an actual Woodforest employee even pulled this up? A. I do not. I do not. Q. Now, times listed on these authorizations, is that -- does it go with like the atomic clock or is it just whatever your computer is set up as? A. It's when the file is received, when the card

25 is processed or swiped and once that -- by a merchant, then when it's sent over, it's uploaded to the system. Q. So, I guess, my question is, like, my cell phone probably shows a different time than my watch, shows a different time than my computer. What time is 0 this coming from, the merchant, or is this coming from your system when it's received? A. Our system when it's received. Q. So, it's possible that the dates and times could even be off from what a video would show? A. It is possible, yes. MR. NEYLAND: THE COURT: MS. MANCE: Nothing further, Your Honor. Ms. Mance. Very briefly, Your Honor. REDIRECT EXAMINATION 0 BY MS. MANCE: Q. The "DB" transactions that we were looking at, do your debit cards at Woodforest Bank allow you just to hit your debit card and run it as a credit card? A. To be able to sign your signature on it? Q. Yes. A. It does. Q. And so, would that also post as "DB"? A. I would not be able to confirm that with a hundred percent certainty.

26 0 Q. But it's not outside the realm of possibility? A. No. Q. And your debit cards allow for you to select run as credit? A. Debit or credit, correct. Q. And the time stamp that we talked about, ::0 p.m. on A. Uh-huh. Q. -- do you have that? A. I don't have that one. Is that the screen-shot one? Q. Yes, the screen-shot. A. Okay. Q. Does that appear to be the exact same time on this particular photo? 0 MS. MANCE: THE COURT: MR. NEYLAND: THE COURT: Pass the witness. Mr. Neyland. Nothing further, Your Honor. You may step down, sir. Let's go to lunch. Please retire to the jury room. (Lunch recess) (Open court, defendant and jury present) THE COURT: All right. Be seated.

27 Ms. Mance. MS. MANCE: call Derick Fuentes. Your Honor, the State would THE COURT: Okay. All right. Ms. Mance. MS. MANCE: Thank you, Your Honor. Permission to approach the witness? THE COURT: Okay. 0 DERICK FUENTES, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows: REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. MANCE: Q. Mr. Fuentes, I'm handing you what's been marked as State's Exhibits No. through 0. Can you just flip 0 through these for a moment and tell me if you recognize those (indicating)? A. Yes, I recognize these. Q. Are these video stills of the video that you watched at Foot Locker that day? Q. Now, in these photographs as well as the video that you observed, can you identify the individual using your card? Q. Okay. And who is that individual? A. Dustin.